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    • Anonymous
      Post count: 10

      Hi, I have been trying to bake some burger buns but my buns end up not flat and smooth on the base. Instead, the base concaves upwards. When I put them on the burger bun pans, I press my balls to a flat circle piece.
      How can I prevent the burger buns from concaving in after baking? They do not seem to want to “sit” on their pan.

    • Profile PhotoMark Floerke
      Keymaster
      @independant-consultant
      Post count: 223

      Hello @sensient-technologies1!

      There are a number of factors that could be contributing to your issue.  The three most common we would look in to first, are dough hydration, baking, and proofing or fermentation.

      If the dough is too firm, too dry, it can cause it to contract and concave as you describe.  If you are using a flour that is too strong, or adding more gluten than needed, it will exasperate this even more.

      Baking can also be cause or contributor.  Over baking can cause this, and part of that may be not getting the buns off the pans to cool soon enough.  As long as they sit on the hot pan the keep baking.

      Green dough that has not had sufficient bulk fermentation, or final proof, can often exhibit this characteristic, or contribute to it.

      We hope this helps you trouble shoot further.

    • Anonymous
      Post count: 10

      Dear Mark,
      Thank you for the answer. However, I still have some questions on the answers you have provided.
      1) What is green dough?

      2) Could you also explain why is it that if we do not de-pan the buns immediately, that could potentially cause bread collapse or bun to concave at the base?

      3) I have tried to increase my water and also fat to make my dough very slack and soft, but even after baking they still appear to have holes at the bottom.

      4) Could another possible reason be that the buns are baked at too high temperature? If yes, why?

      5) What about the pan issue?

      My buns really have very large holes at the base. And it seems like no one else has this problem before as a simple google doesn’t seem to provide much information.
      Any insights on this?

      Thank you!

    • Profile PhotoMark Floerke
      Keymaster
      @independant-consultant
      Post count: 223

      Hello @sensient-technologies1,

      1. Green Dough is an expression bakers use in reference to a dough that has not had sufficient bulk fermentation, or if it was underproofed before baking.  Insufficient bulk fermentation may leave the gluten too tense, not as extensible, and this may contribute to the concave event.
      2. If the buns are left on the hot pan they continue to bake, or cook, and then will pull inward seeking more moisture.  Leaving them on the pan too long may also cause sweating on the bottoms.
      3. To better understand your description of holes, it would help to see a picture.
      4. Too high a temperature might be a possibility.  The dough starts to set on the outside before it is finished rising, and pulls and expands at the weakest points.
      5. As for the buns not “sitting” on the pans, may be your process.  Typical manual process would be to divide the dough in to heads, or bulk quantities, for the bun divider.  Cover and bulk ferment.  Then punch down and use the bun divider to divide and round.  If the divider does not round, then round by hand.  Cover and rest 10 minutes, then final shaping and panning.

      If you can, please share a picture with us to better understand what these “holes” look like.  It may be a clue to the cause.

    • Anonymous
      Post count: 10

      Hi Mark,

      Please refer to the below attachments for the pictures.
      I have tried increasing moisture from 50 to 62%, reduced yeast, increased 50% fat, reduce sugar, all to try and get the dough to be more slack. A firm dough and a slack dough still results in these holes at the base.

      Really not sure why.

      Now i do mixing for about 2 mins slow speed, 7 mins high speed. Dough is pulled out and then let to rest for 5 mins before scaling and rounding. After which its rested another 5 mins before its flattened and moulded to a disc via a moulder. Discs are placed onto a burger bun pan and proofed for 70mins. Baked at about 220 ‘C for about under 10mins.

    • Lin Carson, PhD
      Keymaster
      @lin-carson
      Post count: 41

      Thanks for the pictures. It’s not a mixing issue @sensient-technologies1. Your edges are dark, not white, so you’ve fixed the absorption and pan flow problem. 1. Are you deplaning immediately? 2, Looks to me like a strength issue, did your flour quality change in protein?  3. What is in your oxidation system/dough conditioners?

    • Anonymous
      Post count: 10

      Hi Dr Lin,

       

      Thank you for your prompt response! Could I ask, what do you mean by fix the absorption and pan flow problem? Some of the edges are dark in some trials, some are light (as shown in the 2 different photos as they were taken at different times). I have conducted many trials, trying to alter the different ratios of my ingredients to fix the hole issue but regardless of a firmer or slacker dough, it still has that hole at the bottom.

      Yes, I do de-pan immediately as well.
      My flour has not changed, I use a 12-13% protein bread flour for the dough.
      As for the strength issue part, what do you mean? I have tried using chemical emulsifiers in the product (SSL, DMG) at varying concentrations but doesn’t seem to help much. I even increased the gluten % to try and give the dough more strength as well. No oxidisers are used. Its a basic flour, sugar, fat, water, skim milk powder, gluten, bread improver, emulsifier, salt, yeast recipe.

      Could I ask if the size of the dough in the pan will affect this issue? E.g. filling the dough to be 60-70% area vs 90-100% area of the burger bun? I also want an even rise in the buns instead of them doming.
      What about scaling weight of the dough in the bun pan?
      Will proof time also affect it? Overproofing – will it cause excessive oven spring that pulls the buns?

      Really struggling to identify the cause of the issue and hope for your kind advice 🙂 Thank you once again for the patience and help.

    • Profile PhotoBaking Innovation
      Participant
      @baking-innovation
      Post count: 3

      Hello Edyl, usually when we were seeing buns concaving upwards as you are describing, often caused by a flour with too much protein, excessive flour or pan grease. One easy remedy would be to increase mix time, and/or add the right enzyme to solve the issue.

      Hope it works

      Best,

      Richard

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